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silver
Admin
Japan
12,579 posts
Joined: Feb, 2001
894 hardcore releases
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 Posted - 2003/06/13 : 21:50:29
You all have your thoughts on the matter, but you seem to forgot 5 years ago people NEVER listened to music from the internet, if you wanted to hear new music you went to the CD shop and listened to it there. As for the arguement of I discovered hardcore because of downloads is not a justificatation for MP3 are good for hardcore or downloading MP3 are good.
Sure MP3's are excellent for promotion and un-signed talnet, MP3.com used to be an excellent example of this before it went all pay for this pay for that...
Simple there is no arguement you can give me that does not come back to you are stealing from ANY artist or label by trading.
People have gotten used to using their computer for listening to music insteed of going to the CD shop to buy the CD. Nothing wrong with this and I think the things that Apple are going with i-tunes and their 99cent downloads sounds excellent, because the standard has changed to buying and listening online.
I let this topic go because I though members of this site would be educated enough to know that any types of downloads not matter what genre is hurting the artist. Sure you bought the CD BUT how many files did you download before you bought one CD? And for every one person that actually bought a CD there must be at least 300 that didn't.
Why is that 10 years ago you needed to sell 200,000 CD's to get into the UK top 10 but now all you need to sell is 6000-10,000 (depending on the week). People aint buying CD's, magazines and books anymore people are buying mobile phones, internet connections and new computers, so now more than every download hurt.
I know the problems and there are alot of new things coming on HappyHardcore.com to address these problems.
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it's all hardcore.
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DJ Mouse
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
2,687 posts
Joined: Jul, 2001
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Posted - 2003/06/14 : 01:02:25
right time for my views. i partially agree with freeloading and i don't disrespect anyone who have different views...each to their own innit.
take hardcore - it ain't a big scene and we all know freeloading contributed to sales flopping a few years back. now lets be honest your typical teenager discovers a p2p program and discovers a hardcore track,now they're gonna go one of 2 ways:
go out and buy some cd's etc or,
download some more.
my guess is download some more. bottom line: for such a small scene like this it will do more harm than good.
now take pop/commercial trance/dance/ some style of music with a full release,music video,the works basically. back to like i said earlier on,when our kid downloads one of the tunes,they're gonna download some more
to the point: to sell a hardcore record at about £5 just about covers the costs of a release with a bit left over. but when you've got a big record label ripping us all off and making shit loads of money,it's about time someone stabbed them in the back. that is the only time i agree with downloading mp3's.
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"speeed ios a good subvstitute for accueracy"
DJ Mouse
http://hardcorehq.tk
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atomicb
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
621 posts
Joined: May, 2002
60 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2003/06/14 : 03:35:32
'I didn't for a second think that you didn't :)'
Well that's ok, sorry for getting a bit mad... its just I really dnt want to be labled as a proper pirate.. I did it, I still think it was right, but I dnt do it anymore.
Silver - I'm sure 5 years ago people did just buy cd's but ya know what I wasn't into music so much at that age, but I can tell you for sure now I'd rather hear it before I buy it - I'm very tight with my cash, not just with music with anything. I can't risk getting a cd that sucks and go 'oh well'. I have to enjoy it.
Now I'm more into the scene this is easier, but I am into the scene because of these tracks I downloaded. How many did I download before I baught hardcore? I think I had the best part of one of the happy 2b hardcore cd's and a few other random rips. Since then I have baught bonkers 8, bonkers 9, bonkers 10, the newest hardcore heaven, and about 80 vinyls. I see this as doing more good than damage.
I know everyone doesn't work out like that, but some people do think like I do and don't shamelessly rip stuff off because they can. All I'm really asking is that you try to remeber that there is not one sole type of person who d/l's mp3's and not one sole reason for doing so. Yes it is still stealing. But one of these kinds of 'stealing' still benifits the scene. I've made all my friends by the bonkers cd's them selves - but only after they'd heard them extensivly at my house . . . it seems it's not a global thing but most people I know are really into try before you buy and that's the best option for doing it.
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strychnine
Advanced Member
Australia
2,268 posts
Joined: Feb, 2002
92 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2003/06/14 : 08:00:38
quote:
Originally posted by DJ Mouse:
to sell a hardcore record at about £5 just about covers the costs of a release with a bit left over
This could include artist royalties, sleeve design, label design, printing, pressing, packaging, shipping, distribution, advertising, sales expenses, etc. What if you just want to be able to listen to the music, and you don't give a ratshit what format it's on?
To this end, I think Apple is taking a step in the right direction with its iTunes thingy. At the very essence, when you pay for music you pay the artist for making it, and then you pay a whole lot of other people for getting it to you. Digital format has the potential to minimise the latter component of the price so that a good chunk of what you pay goes to the artist who, really, is the only person that deserves your money. The recording industry won't like it, but quite frankly I couldn't give a shit.
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atomicb
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
621 posts
Joined: May, 2002
60 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2003/06/14 : 09:24:40
It could work very well, give more money to the artists and so on, and yet no-one really seems to have caught onto the idea.
the main concern I suppose is that one person buys it and then just gives it to someone else. This leads to all those 'secure' formats that Sony and MS push. I hate those, really really hate them and I'm glad they are shunned and ignored for the most part.
If there is a will there is a way, and people will do it. But at least give people the option.. couldn't hurt too much to try it? (i'm not quite sure who this plea is too, heh)
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BAD_WES
Senior Member
United States
326 posts
Joined: Oct, 2002
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Posted - 2003/06/14 : 10:26:22
I used to be a big fan of mp3's. I thought that these artists make so much money whats one download going to do. Not to mention i hate Metalica. But after talking to Rooms for a few hours on the subject my thoughts changed emensly. When i found out how little producers actually make i stopped downloading mp3's. The same thing goes for all you people who download movies and games. Thats why prices are raised and you start to pay more for less; because you download things that you dont pay for. Dont download mp3's unless they are free.(*edit* dosent count because they are being stolen).
When I post, i shoud really be sleeping.
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atomicb
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
621 posts
Joined: May, 2002
60 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2003/06/14 : 12:41:07
I'm only going to buy what I like, and I'm not going to know if I like it if I don't try it first.
If I download a film and watch it and don't like it, they didn't deserve my money in the first place - this comes before the issue of thier slim earnings and raising of prices. If I don't like a film or don't like some music or games, I'm not going to pay for them.
A miniscule percentage of 0 is still 0, which is what they deserve from me if I don't like it. If I like it, it shall be paid for.
This topic was asking what mp3's do for the scene, I'm still going to argue it's a good thing more times than it is a bad thing. If the music is good enough (as we all belive it is) the money will come to those who deserve it.
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silver
Admin
Japan
12,579 posts
Joined: Feb, 2001
894 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2003/06/15 : 02:02:04
No one likes to get ripped off when buying something, but you can't walk into a resturant, order something and then not pay for it because you don't like it.
You have to investigate yourself what is good music, what is a good movie BEFORE you pay for it, you can't just download a tune that you know nothing about and then say after it... "oh that sucked lucky I didn't buy it"... you should have gone to the music shop to listen to it... or listened to them on the radio (artists and labels get very good paid for music played on the radio so don't question me here).
This comes back to my point that people don't goto the CD shops anymore, they listen online.
I know all the problems, you need a trial of the music to listen to and you want it downloadable with security so no one else copies it. I can't tell you what is coming on HappyHardcore.com soon but you might want to get your CC ready for some extreamly rare tuneage...
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BAD_WES
Senior Member
United States
326 posts
Joined: Oct, 2002
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Posted - 2003/06/15 : 03:07:37
Hmm, im never going to know if i like something if i dont try it first. Nice try, but you fail agian. Thats just another B.S. excuse for people who download things. You ever hear of renting movies, or asking people who watch movies all the time if it was any good? I know a few people who watch movies all the time, and i ask them if the movie was any good. If they say no, i ask why. If they say yes i go rent it. So far i have rented 0 movies that i didnt like becuse of them. I mean ask some one on the board about a hardcore track you want to buy, or go and find it on the record companies web site and they will have a snip of it there. There is no excuse for downloading mp3's. I still have not seen an arguement that has changed my mind.
When I post, i shoud really be sleeping.
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strychnine
Advanced Member
Australia
2,268 posts
Joined: Feb, 2002
92 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2003/06/15 : 03:35:11
quote:
Originally posted by STiWES:
There is no excuse for downloading mp3's. I still have not seen an arguement that has changed my mind.
I'm sure the mp3 downloading community's collective heart is bleeding because you think what they're doing is wrong =P
A bit off-topic, but IMHO one of the main problems lies in the fact that the recording industry as a whole has generally been more concerned about trying to convince the rest of the world that downloading mp3's is the Eighth Deadly Sin, and in the process has failed to make any progress in the direction of making the format work for the artists and producers as well as the end listeners. Probably has something to do with the fact that it leeches a fair chunk of the difference between what the consumer pays and what the artist receives.
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Midway_raver
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
1,032 posts
Joined: Sep, 2001
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 Posted - 2003/06/15 : 03:38:04
I think people are being very closed minded, especially Silver.
I download mp3's, i don't feel guilty for it.
At the end of the day if i download a tune and like it i'll buy it ,taking into account if it's readily available. And if that isn't doing the artists good then i don't know what is. Besides people who buy teh vinyl are dj's u can't dj using mp3's so it isn't really gonna affect the artists all too much IMO.If i can't find a tune on vinyl i don't go n delete the mp3 cus i am a criminal i keep it and put it on cd n cain it in the car or on my stereo. Surely it is better to have the tunes u like and if mp3 is the only way u can get them then so be it. Otherwise u'll create an elitist problem within hardcore that if ur new u can't listen to music that is over 5 years old cus u can't find it 99% of the time?
quote:
Sure there are people that don't give a shit and steal things they are criminals... but it's your choice... you either support hardcore or your just a freeloader and no one has any respect for you here.
That is very harsh!! Not everyone can afford to buy tunes every week like most of us do. I'd rather see music reaching people than the music being out of reach for certain people.
Finally as a person who has poured at the very least 1000's of pounds into hardcore, shouldn't i be entitled to search and find new music or be content with what u and other dj's feed us?
In complete darkness we are all the same, it is only our knowledge and wisdom that seperates us.
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Romney
New Member
United Kingdom
46 posts
Joined: May, 2003
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Posted - 2003/06/15 : 03:41:16
Have to agree with silver and everything he's said. Peer 2 peer software is great if its used properly but so many people abuse it. I know its going off track but i work in a cinema and people have mentioned downloading movies which is just as bad as mp3's. I dont know about how much money is lost due to mp3's but i do know that 60% of films dont make a profit due to piracy.
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Dream-Scape
New Member
United Kingdom
75 posts
Joined: Apr, 2002
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Posted - 2003/06/15 : 03:53:01
abuse mp3's n get music for free.
remember drugs ain't free
Buxton Crew !!
Buzzin !!
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Buxton Crew !!
Buzzin !!
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ryg0r
Advanced Member
Australia
2,807 posts
Joined: Aug, 2002
34 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2003/06/15 : 04:08:34
There have been many good points in this topic. Heaps.
But I have to say this:
Copying is not stealing. As in the traditional stealing. If you were to go into a car dealership and make an exact copy of the latest and greatest BMW its not stealing.
But it does eat into what would be rightly deserved monies
I as an artist would prefer if some-one where to email me and say can I have a free CD rather than (you'll have to pay for postage outside of Australia  )
The thing is that real life is different to the digital world. You can't copy the latest BMW for nothing. You can't sample some gourmet meal and not pay for it if you don't like it. Most CD stores have listening devices so you can hear what you're getting before you buy it. (Yes I do go to CD stores)
By downloading music (without paying the artist) you are consciously making a descision not to really apreciate the hard work that goes on behind the scenes. Saying "I'm a huge fan of Scott Brown", but having nothing but vinyl rips off *edit* only makes you a hypocrite. I'll acknowledge that it doesn't seem like stealing because you don't take anything. But its refusing hard working artists their rightful pay.
I think the RIAA is going too much on a rampage, but the fact is if you're learning to take the easy way out by "not bothering to get a CD for 1 track" is going to get you NO WHERE IN LIFE.
You have to take the good with the bad.
-=[ryg0r]=-
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ryg0r
Advanced Member
Australia
2,807 posts
Joined: Aug, 2002
34 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2003/06/15 : 04:12:54
I realised I shot myself in the foot a couple of times 
quote:
Copying is not stealing.
Then later on:
quote:
I'll acknowledge that it doesn't seem like stealing because you don't take anything. But its refusing hard working artists their rightful pay.
What I mean to say is that copying doesn't seem like stealing because you physically don't take anything
-=[ryg0r]=-
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