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mr bishi
Advanced Member
Ireland
874 posts
Joined: Mar, 2002
49 hardcore releases
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 Posted - 2003/06/15 : 04:34:16
Dis is from the interview wit UFO from this site and i totally agree wit it
quote:
Q: What's your views and thoughts on the current MP3 problem and that
downloads kill hardcore?
A: I don't think there is any point moaning about it because, after all, you will never be able to do anything about it. In my experience MP3 files have actually helped our music. Its like a free advert for your releases. Most people i have come across download an MP3 of something then go out and buy the vinyl when its released. So I don't really think MP3's do us much harm at all.
I'm a Derek and Dereks don't run!
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HPW
Junior Member
United Kingdom
80 posts
Joined: May, 2003
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Posted - 2003/06/15 : 05:02:20
i agree...
Seriously though i think it is wrong to download the tunes and then put them on to CD, if you are not going to buy the CD or vinyl. I dont think its a bad thing if you are just checking the tunes out, prior to buying. As long as the person buys them to listen to them permenently and doesnt just use mp3's on every sound system he has.
Listening to tunes you like that you havnt bought doesnt give credit to the artists in return for producing the quality tunes. It aint morally right.
hpw..
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atomicb
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
621 posts
Joined: May, 2002
60 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2003/06/15 : 08:41:22
'Q: What's your views and thoughts on the current MP3 problem and that
downloads kill hardcore?
A: I don't think there is any point moaning about it because, after all, you will never be able to do anything about it. In my experience MP3 files have actually helped our music. Its like a free advert for your releases. Most people i have come across download an MP3 of something then go out and buy the vinyl when its released. So I don't really think MP3's do us much harm at all.
'
Exacly.
'Hmm, im never going to know if i like something if i dont try it first. Nice try, but you fail agian. Thats just another B.S. excuse for people who download things. You ever hear of renting movies, or asking people who watch movies all the time if it was any good? I know a few people who watch movies all the time, and i ask them if the movie was any good. If they say no, i ask why. If they say yes i go rent it. So far i have rented 0 movies that i didnt like becuse of them. I mean ask some one on the board about a hardcore track you want to buy, or go and find it on the record companies web site and they will have a snip of it there. There is no excuse for downloading mp3's. I still have not seen an arguement that has changed my mind.'
I dnt see anything BS about my argument. There is an excuse for downloading the mp3's - when the end resault is equal to, or even better than not having them. People can abuse it, People do abuse it. So what? people abuse all kinds of things. When it's not abused, it works in hardcore's favor.
Also I care litttle what a friend with lots of movies says about a film or dvd, it needs to be what *I* think of it. He says neon genisis is amazing, and if I'd bought it I woulda be distraught. I downloaded a few eps and saved my self a fortune. That's the way to do it, that's fine because there is really no viable alternative. I don't want to hear about renting stuff, or asking others - when the technology to offer this kind of trybefore you buy stuff, why should I have to? I also downloaded an entire anime series and enjoyed it greatly... and you know what? as soon as I found out where to buy it, I did. If it wasn't for the wonders of Divx, I'd never have seen it, and never have baught it. This works exacly the same as my hardcore argument and is not some BS I just say to justifiy it to you... I dnt care about that because frankly I'm going to do it ;)
This links to strychnines point -- record compaines (film etc too), instead of wasting thier time saying how bad mp3's are and not to download them should have spent thier time using mp3's to market it thier work. They haven't done this, so u know what? I'll do it for my self thank-you-very-much and feel no guilt from doing so.
I don't do this with hardcore anymore, I dnt need to. I did before (some of you seem to think I do?) and I did without ever feeling gulity of it.
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ryg0r
Advanced Member
Australia
2,807 posts
Joined: Aug, 2002
34 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2003/06/15 : 17:15:44
I don't think you read my point at all 
Let us not forget that some people get vinyl rips and then use them to DJ on a set of CD decks.
But lets think about it. If you spent a couple of months producing a track, invest money on getting it pressed and the moment it comes out (with all the hype and promotion) you can find a vinyl rip on *edit*.
I'm sure you'd be cut. Don't deny it. You would be.
As I said before, samples of a track, I reckon are fine. But mate, thats not the issue here.
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DJ Mouse
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
2,687 posts
Joined: Jul, 2001
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Posted - 2003/06/15 : 18:00:23
spot on there. i'd be gutted if i found my tunes on a p2p. but we all have to accept the fact that it will happen to us,and yes it's affecting sales.
i know lots of you are thinking "what's 1 download gonna do?" but when loads of ppl think that then that 1 download turns into 1000. a lot of money that's definitely needed has gone down the drain.
and i'm with atomicb on this one,instead of record companies moaning about it they should put their arses into gear and tackle the problem - get all the p2p programs shut down for a start. they know damn well its illegal to share mp3's so why encourage it?
lets put it this way - i'd be inclined to having a full quality mp3 file of a song that's going to be commercially released for sale on my website if i was chairman of a label. ppl download it after they're charged maybe £3 for the single from their credit card. buyers get all the mixes that would be on the cd like it would be from the record store,and they can burn it to cd from there if they like. the label gets the added advantage of no printing or cd costs. so the mp3's might be shared around on a p2p...if most get shut down then it will be on a par with copied cd's/tapes.
and lets be honest,you always come across bad rips,as in distorted,too quiet or at something stupid like 40kbps. that problem would be eliminated
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Edited by - DJ Mouse on 2003/06/15 18:02:01 |
ryg0r
Advanced Member
Australia
2,807 posts
Joined: Aug, 2002
34 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2003/06/15 : 18:35:12
I don't think that buying downloads will help the problem that much, thought you could prove me wrong.
1. Crappy quality. Even mp3's at 320kps are dodge. To me anyway.
2. Some smart ass like me would "buy it" and then stick it on *edit*.
It will be damn near impossible to elimnate p2p proggies, because the programs themselves aren't doing anything wrong, its the people [gun's don't kill people, people kill people principal]
Just like like what happened with the shutdown of *edit*, other things will pop up. And in the worst case people will resort to *edit*, *edit* or even *edit*.
People, given the opportunity will always do wrong - you don't have to teach a child to be "bad". You have to educate, what he/she/it/they does/are doing is wrong.
Just as I said "its refusing hard working artists their rightful pay." Nuff said.
-=[ryg0r]=-
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silver
Admin
Japan
12,579 posts
Joined: Feb, 2001
894 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2003/06/15 : 21:37:57
quote:
Originally posted by Midway_raver:
At the end of the day if i download a tune and like it i'll buy it, taking into account if it's readily available.
You might but 90% of the rest of the world doesn't.
quote:
Originally posted by Midway_raver:
Besides people who buy teh vinyl are dj's u can't dj using mp3's so it isn't really gonna affect the artists all too much IMO.
DJ's are not the problem, if everyone in the world was a DJ there would not be a problem because they would all be buying vinyl, the problem regular hardcore user.
quote:
Originally posted by Midway_raver:
Not everyone can afford to buy tunes every week like most of us do. I'd rather see music reaching people than the music being out of reach for certain people.
I have heard this excuss before and that is plain ass lazy, get a job, cut grass, sell baseball cards, whatever... Having no money is no excuss. This is why we play new stuff on HappyHardcore.com radio so you can listen to it FOR FREE (we actually pay the RIAA!)
quote:
Originally posted by ryg0r:
Copying is not stealing.
If you don't own the copyright then copying is always stealing.
quote:
Originally posted by atomicb:
Also I care litttle what a friend with lots of movies says about a film or dvd, it needs to be what *I* think of it. He says neon genisis is amazing, and if I'd bought it I woulda be distraught. I downloaded a few eps and saved my self a fortune. That's the way to do it, that's fine because there is really no viable alternative. I don't want to hear about renting stuff, or asking others - when the technology to offer this kind of trybefore you buy stuff, why should I have to? I also downloaded an entire anime series and enjoyed it greatly... and you know what? as soon as I found out where to buy it, I did. If it wasn't for the wonders of Divx, I'd never have seen it, and never have baught it. This works exacly the same as my hardcore argument and is not some BS I just say to justifiy it to you... I dnt care about that because frankly I'm going to do it ;)
You found the information on the internet insteed of something else, if you had not found it you would have found something else you liked, perhaps elsewhere in the world and not the internet. Just because this one action is what actually happened does not mean that alternative things would have happened if you did not have internet access. If your intentions were, I will download this movie and buy it for sure if I like it then there would not be a problem, but that is not the attitude of all downloaders... it's "what can I download"... with no intentions of buying it...
quote:
Originally posted by atomicb:
This links to strychnines point -- record compaines (film etc too), instead of wasting thier time saying how bad mp3's are and not to download them should have spent thier time using mp3's to market it thier work. They haven't done this, so u know what? I'll do it for my self thank-you-very-much and feel no guilt from doing so.
How do you except them to make any money giving shit away for free? Did you know that 1 in 20 films a film company makes actually makes money?
Go make your own label, your own tunes, put your hand work, sweet and blood into making it... release it and ask people to buy it, only to sell 20%, loss a bunch of money and the rest copied like nothing else and the people coping them thinking it's great fun.... Most having no idea the damage they are doing... You don't know how much it hurts until it happens to you... This topic has made me so angry, I thought the members of this site were a little more educated than this... instead they need to come up with excuss' and arguements as to why they need to steal music.
If you had to answer the question is downloading music that you don't own the copyright to or is not classed as free music a crime? YES or NO only... you would ALL have to answer YES.
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it's all hardcore.
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LMPhoenix
New Member
United Kingdom
38 posts
Joined: May, 2002
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Posted - 2003/06/16 : 01:33:24
There are a lot of good arguments here for and against file sharing
but im just gonna do the mp3 hardcore file sharing argument
1. Silver u say anything is possible to track down on the internet to pay for it
This is not true (believe me ive be looking for one thing for 5 years and still not found it)
2. mp3s get the music distrubuted this i believe is a good thing
at the end of the day an artist wants his music heard else why do they bother
(okay i understand they want to get paid for it )
3. Silver you say that the fact that people cant afford it is no exscuse they should get a job
what if these people do work have kids etc etc and dont have enough disposable income to buy hardcore what they should do without. I dont think so.
4. There are other ways to contribute money to the scene than buying tracks
Like going to where this all started RAVES
5. someone earlier mentioned that there is no hardcore singles released this i find to be true
release a track on cd un-mixed . theres a demand for this that is why people rip vinyls for the most part (supply and demand)
ok thats enough ranting from me
and i know i mainly concentrated on the side for mp3s but thats how my opinion leans
I Just want you to know its nice to be important but its important to be ****ing nice
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I Just want you to know its nice to be important but its important to be ****ing nice
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strychnine
Advanced Member
Australia
2,268 posts
Joined: Feb, 2002
92 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2003/06/16 : 05:30:41
quote:
Originally posted by LMPhoenix:
4. There are other ways to contribute money to the scene than buying tracks
Like going to where this all started RAVES
The artists do not receive a cent in royalties from when their work is played at a rave. All they get is promotion of their tracks ... and even then, it's kinda limited in value cuz there's rarely a giant display there telling everyone what track's being played.
quote:
Originally posted by silver:
How do you except them to make any money giving shit away for free? Did you know that 1 in 20 films a film company makes actually makes money?
The option isn't to give away mp3's, but more a user-pays system like iTunes or something. Yes, some people will buy them and share them out (it's not a matter of if, but when) but in the end, the industry would be tapping into a market that doesn't generally pay for music anyway. If it means that you're getting some money from this segment, then it can only be a good thing.
Oh, and sure you'll have some people deciding not to buy records/CD's/8-tracks and going and buying the mp3's instead. I don't see this as a bad thing; the artist gets the money all the same, it's just all the middle-men who miss out.
Another benefit of this is that there isn't any time limit on the inflow of royalties, as opposed to, say, a vinyl release that only has revenue potential for the artist for so long as it's still in print. The artist can be making money off the music years after it's released.
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atomicb
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
621 posts
Joined: May, 2002
60 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2003/06/16 : 07:31:45
Hold up here a min silver.
Let me say this - I do understand how it must suck to write a song and then see someone having it ripped off for free. I do understand how *some* people will go in with the attitute 'hmm how much can I rip off?' as opposed to the attitude I have. I am NOT ignorant to the harm mp3's *can* do. All I'm asking is that you accept that not everyone is like the person you describe - just trying to freeload. There are plenty of people like me who will have/will download mp3's for other reasonsn - we're not sure we'll like it, we can't find it on vinyl cd etc etc. There are reasons that while not strictly legal, I think are perfectly fine that people use. Please, please... please do not think that I am trying defend those 'other' kind of people who just download everything for free and do pay for any of it.
I know those kind of people too - the people who come into mys chool with a case full of copied cd's - of music they love and should damn well pay for. I hate that as much a you do. But not everyone is like that.
My point was this - mp3's, as way of finding music and getting it to people is NOT bad per se. It can be put to very good use. It's an exllent promotional tool (as I've demonstrated through how much cash I have spend due to those d/l's I have done in my time)
and for this reason, I linked onto strychnine's point. You can bitch and moan about mp3's all you like and ask people not to download them, but that's pointless, you know why?
The 'hardcore' downloaders will just do it anyway, (more to spite you then get what they want half the time) and the people like me, will also continue using it because you don't offer the service we require at the time. Hence this i-tunes system or similar is ideal. I'd gladly pay a bit to use mp3's in the way I want, maybe a company should do that and you'd get some money from it. Or you can continue to bitch and moan, and loose 100% of the lost income as opposed to getting some of it from us users that use mp3's responsibly. As strychine came back to point out I DO NOT mean give them away for free, that is crazy. Just give us more options of how to pay, be ore flexible instead of sticking to the same methods of distrobution for x million years.
'You found the information on the internet insteed of something else, if you had not found it you would have found something else you liked, perhaps elsewhere in the world and not the internet. Just because this one action is what actually happened does not mean that alternative things would have happened if you did not have internet access.'
Ok, yes that is true. One problem, I *do* have internet access so I'm going to use it to the full. You can stop and ask all these questions, but to be honest I don't see the point in dealing in what if's. I had the internet I tested out a product, I baught it. They make a sale both ways. This doesn't always happen... buuut it leads to what I said at the start of this post.
Oh and just a final note.... no one is ever going to stop p2p programs as long as demand continues. They aren't centralised so there's nothing to 'shut down'. The more laws are passed here and else where the more servers get located in contries that would love to stick two fingers up at our government (more so the us) p2p is here to stay, people can only be drawn away by making a viable alternative, not by bitching and moaning about it.
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Romney
New Member
United Kingdom
46 posts
Joined: May, 2003
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Posted - 2003/06/16 : 07:34:43
iTunes is the way to go but the only reason it was so popular during the first month was due to a fault whcih meant users could share mp3's with each other!
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Simon
Advanced Member
Belgium
5,001 posts
Joined: Dec, 2001
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Posted - 2003/06/16 : 10:02:27
quote:
Originally posted by strychnine:
The artists do not receive a cent in royalties from when their work is played at a rave. All they get is promotion of their tracks ... and even then, it's kinda limited in value cuz there's rarely a giant display there telling everyone what track's being played.
But in this country, most artists don't get there money from tune sales, but from playing out at events, and the more people who attend the event the bigger percentage the top DJ's will recieve.
In The End
Downloading is wrong
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silver
Admin
Japan
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Joined: Feb, 2001
894 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2003/06/16 : 18:29:08
I never said I could stop P2P programs, I will never recommend you use P2P software nor download the tune, you have to draw the line somewhere, I can not sit as owner and operator of the largest hardcore site in the world and tell people it's okay to use P2P on these conditions...
Trials downloads are fine - they don't really exist yet, when they do I will be the first to promote them, as they provide a trial before you buy online. When that happens I am quite sure old stock (hard to find stuff) will come online to buy.
Yes I love itunes idea... I hope they make a PC version very soon.
Downloading is wrong, coping CD's is very wrong... always will be wrong in my eyes, I can't stop you from doing it, nor do I really attempt to stop people. It's your choice whatever reasons you have to give. All I can do is not promote it and educate people. You have to understand my position.
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it's all hardcore.
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ryg0r
Advanced Member
Australia
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Joined: Aug, 2002
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Posted - 2003/06/16 : 18:34:18
I completely understand your position, quite simply because you have/do/will/depend on sales of records/cds for some form of an income. By people copying CD's/downling vinyl rips (which they don't own) you don't get anything
-=[ryg0r]=-
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atomicb
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
621 posts
Joined: May, 2002
60 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2003/06/16 : 22:42:03
I do understand what your saying, as I said in my previous post... and my p2p comments were more a reply to mouses comment (I think?). I understand what your saying, I just wanted to point out that not all people use p2p or the like just to freeload.
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